yeah, greenday sold out pretty hard.

I'm still trying to find the point in seeing what is wrong with "selling out". I have yet to hear a valid opinion against it.

heres some opinions against it:
warning
waiting
minority

I'm not railing against them "selling out", per se. I'm just saying they altered their sound to a real "wanna-be punk" thing... that element was honestly not present in their music before, Hooha. They used to be a pop band.

In Green Day's case and in a lot of others, I don't think no matter if they sold out or stayed indie, the material would have been the same regardless. You can't say "oh he signed to major label, so whatever he writes is shit." He would have written that shit anyways, selling out had no part in how the music turned out. I don't really think they catered to the public's ear and altered their style just for it. It's just how he progressed. See what I'm saying?

That's not what I said at all, although I think in Green Day's case, there is a bigger argument to be made in favor of the major label affecting the sound. Once Green Day left Lookout, I think Billie Joe got defensive and attempted to over-compensate their "punk" side, which was minimal before, in order to maintain some sort of hip credibility with indie folk. I'm certainly not saying that he SHOULD have done so... I think you know me well enough (or at least know my musical taste well enough) to understand that I'm far from being some sort of indie snob.

Noo, I wasn't saying you were an indie snob or really disagreeing with you. I was just speaking in general. I just don't think signing to a major label has that big of an affect on a writer. Has some and in other cases has more, I've seen but when a band goes mainstream, they automatically don't suck. That's unfair. Rob, yer far from a music snob. Hell you made the Green Day mix. I'm just speaking out for Sell Out Rights in America. lol.

I'll give you one GREAT example of a band that in my opinion, lost their touch when they "sold out" (which for purposes of this discussion means "sign to a major label.") And here it is: REM. Everything they did on IRS was pretty much golden--and even Green is brilliant (but the way I look at it, that was the LP they made before the Warner cash started rolling in.) Then as the 90s wore on, they got worse and worse. They went in certain directions that I think made it easier to pander to a mainstream audience. Then when they tried to "recapture the magic" with Monster, they showed themselves to be a pale imitation of what they once were. You could tell that all of the major label blood money had ruined their sound. And though I will vouch for the fact that Rob is NOT an indie snob, I certainly am, and for good reason--I have yet to hear anything on a corporate label that affects me more than the indie stuff I listen to. Making music is not supposed to put bread on the table--it's supposed to be something you love to do because you love listening to it and making it--this is the reason indie bands play music and the overall quality shows.

Brandt, I agree with you in a lot of ways, but you and Hooha both are on the verge of putting me in the awkward position of defending major-label stuff, as bizarre as that sounds... I mean, I probably own maybe two major-label releases from this year, but I don't dismiss something just because it's on a major or make blanket statements like you (Brandt) just did. As far as R.E.M. goes... this is going to open up a can of worms... I think Green is absolute garbage, as are Document, Monster and Reveal. Out of Time is close to being lame. But their other records since the IRS days are underrated, I think...

Finally! Someone understands the fact that Green Day is more than major labels and music videos. 'Dookie' is still a classic for me (i was in 6th grade when it came out), but once i got '1039/ smoothed out slappy hours' and 'kerplunk!', I truly fell in love with Green Day. They were once just a garage/punk/indie band doing their own thing. You can even hear metal riffs in some songs. 'Christie Road', 'One of My Lies', and 'Green Day' are awesome. The only songs I would have added would be 'Who Wrote Holden Caulfield?' and 'No One Knows'. As for them selling out, maybe they really did (would you?), or maybe they tried to do like one of their biggest influences, the Clash, and evolve their sound. Maybe that just meant getting harder....

this rules.