this mix has opened my eyes, and i will never sleep again

oh, zachrobbins so much to answer for...

Ah, the Smiths...reminds me of my depressed college days (though I'm only 25). Though this is the umpteenth Smiths mix that omits my very favorite Smiths tune, "The Boy With The Thorn In His Side."

Okay, as per your track notes on my Smiths mix... I like this, but can't conceive of making it without: 1) "This Charming Man" (my absolute favorite Smiths song); 2) "Reel Around the Fountain" (my second-favorite); and "Panic". Let the discussion begin...

as for boy with the thorn, it was between that and cemetry gates, which i see as very similar songs on a record tht doesn't have a bad song. the same goes for reel around the fountain and suffer little children, however as much as i like reel around the fountain, suffer little children sees morrissey at his most intriguing, the lyrical content concerns/applies to morrissey and the rest of the band's connection to manchester, whereas reel around the fountain being almost as good a song doesn't take on a greater meaning like suffer little children.
As for this charming man, as for the four song i left off that i wanted to include-"nowhere fast" "Queen is dead" "how soon is now" and it, it would have been the first put on it, but, when compared to hand in glove and still ill, which i think are its closest ties on the s/t, i couldn't rid either so i just decided to say "scrap the songs everyone knows by heart and embrace the flow of the mix, which is more important" oh yeah, panic matched up, in my opinion with heaven knows i'm miserable now and you just haven't earned it yet baby, i love panic, but those two take precedence, by scrapping those songs i got a chance to include stuff not really used much in greatest hits comp's like unhappy birthday, you've got everything now, well i wonder, etc.

Huh. I've always thought that "Reel Around the Fountain" was one of Morrissey's most personal, and though ironic, most directly poignant lyrics; therefore, I'd say that there's "greater meaning" in that song than "Suffer". I hope you understand, btw, that I like your mix and am only discussing this stuff for exactly that reason. As far as "This Charming Man" being on a million "Greatest Hits" comps... well, every so often a song that a million people love by a band happens to be their best song. In this case, IMHO, "This Charming Man" is it, if only for Johnny Marr's opening guitar break.

mutual respect for sure-however, about the morrissey "reel around the fountain" thing, lets not forget that morrissey was one of the biggest, if not the biggest bullshit persona in pop history, that's not to say that he wasn't one of the most, if not the most brilliant as well, however a song about molestation or sexual deviation, etc. is prime material for morrissey considering his adolescent obsessions of glam-rock and androgyny, feminism, and his later vow of celibacy. you might be perfectly correct, but i tend to see this as morrissey being morrissey and doing it really fucking well-however, "suffer.." about the man and woman duo who kidnapped raped and killed a few or more manchester kids during morrissey's youth is a very poignant song, personally for the band, because it is moreso for manchester as a whole- and manchester is the issue. bla bla bla, i love this charming man too, i won't pretend not to, but again it's a song that took on realistic proportions once i really fell in love with the smiths

btw, a good discussion is always welcome

I definitely see your point about "Suffer", for sure. And I understand Morrissey's bullshitting proclivities... it's actually one of the things that keeps me from loving a lot of his music as much as I could. To me, Johnny Marr is what *really* made the Smiths great, although his subsequent output (to the extent that it exists) is lame at best (which is not unlike a fair portion of Morrissey's solo work). This, of course, is all my opinion. And hey, I've loved the Smiths since at least "Meat is Murder" (I can't say that I bought their first album when it came out, although it has since become my favorite) and "Charming Man" still looms large over the rest of their catalog. In fact, I wanted to mention that it's "Bigmouth Strikes Again" that's suffered the most from overexposure in my world, even though I gave it the nod on my mix.

Lennon/ McCartney dude, at least morrissey and marr had the curse as well, although electronic is not horrible

I'll actually stand by most McCartney albums between 1970 and 1980, though. heh heh Call me crazy. The only ones I'm not too fond of are Speed of Sound and Venus & Mars (although London Town has some drek on it). Lennon's first two solo records were amazing... then what happened?!

i'll do the same for lennon, his despair, escapism, and anger are near and dear to my heart, paul just makes me angry

Really? I don't get this "McCartney anger" thing... to me, he was the *real* talent in the Beatles. The best musician (by far), the best vocalist (by a hair), and about equal as a songwriter to the Sainted One. And he was the only one with enough interest and/or sense to keep the band going after Brian died. Without him, by extension, there'd be no White Album--and that's enough for me to thank him forever. On his own, I'd admit that there aren't many of his songs that rise to the greatness of just about anything on Plastic Ono Band and approximately half of Imagine, but he was at least way more consistent than John (IMH Beatles-obsessed-for-24-years O). I just don't see what's wrong with crafting perfect pop songs, I guess.

i see your point, yet...i guess when i listen to the beatles, and ever since i began listening, whichever was singing whichever song, it always just sounded like the beatles, as if that were just one person (exceptions of course, yesterday, a day in the life, tomorrow never knows) and that's something i'll never be able to quite understand, but the point i'm trying to get at is that in terms of solo work, you can hear the beatle voice filter through, and the problem i have with paul's stuff is that i rarely hear that voice, whether it be good or bad or whether i'm wrong (because i don't know his solo stuff incredibly well), but with george's stuff (early-all things must pass esp.) however cheesy (traveling wilburys i got my mind set on you) i hear the voice, with john it seems like he's trying to further it after his initial stuff, somehting he obviously could not have done without a worthy cast, and you hear the voice even if it does come in the form of no 9 dream, but with paul, and again i don't know his stuff very well, i can say band on the run off the top of my head, but that mini-suite on the early album??? it just seems like his old-tymey stuff (honey pie, rocky raccoon) always needed the beatle muse for them to actually beome perfect pop songs, however, these are high-falutin' thoughts of a worshipper

you've inspired me to begin on a beatle comprehensive, and it will probably be the only band that gets a double cd

I've done a four-disc Beatles comprehensive ("No one I think is in my tree"). Let me know what you think...

This is really an exceptional mix..I was just wondering what versions of some tracks you had in mind?